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	<title>Comments for Oedipus Lex</title>
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	<link>http://oedipuslex.co.uk</link>
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		<title>Comment on 9/11 — Where I Was. by gizachew abebe</title>
		<link>http://oedipuslex.co.uk/2009/09/911-where-i-was/comment-page-1/#comment-94</link>
		<dc:creator>gizachew abebe</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 07 Sep 2010 13:13:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://oedipuslex.co.uk/?p=135#comment-94</guid>
		<description>USA a country with so many STATE SECRETS,  Very very dark and bad secrets. They are countless and they are pouring yet again. It is good if God help the US people, otherwise the US kings (about 500) will drop the third big bomb in one of the towns of US if they fell it is profitable....</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>USA a country with so many STATE SECRETS,  Very very dark and bad secrets. They are countless and they are pouring yet again. It is good if God help the US people, otherwise the US kings (about 500) will drop the third big bomb in one of the towns of US if they fell it is profitable.…</p>
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		<title>Comment on Israel and the Flotilla by lg_101</title>
		<link>http://oedipuslex.co.uk/2010/06/israel-and-the-flotilla/comment-page-1/#comment-93</link>
		<dc:creator>lg_101</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 01 Jun 2010 17:45:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://oedipuslex.co.uk/?p=191#comment-93</guid>
		<description>Hi, thats was an interesting read.

&quot;The entire operation was a total failure on every level.&quot;  

I also have sympathy for the soldiers who did the shooting, what else where they expected to do, with a handful of them, massively outnumbered by the ships passengers and crew?  They had extremely limited options. But, I think you are making assumptions here about the objective of the operation.  

As you say they had literally months to plan this op and would surely have been aware of the consequences of different strategies, which brings me to my point:  killing 10 people is a damn good way to make sure the people who wish to render assistance to the inhabitants of Gaza will think twice before doing anything like this again.  I find it very hard indeed to believe that the raid, mounted exactly as you have described (inexperienced troops, at night, and a highly aggressive storming of the ships by armed commandos rather than a blockade), would have an outcome that was much different than the one that in fact occurred.  I don&#039;t suggest that killing was the objective, only that a confrontation was utterly inevitable, therefore must have been the objective. 

It is an established principle in law that one does not need to demonstrate intent, only that the outcome of a particular action was reasonably predictable.  This was quite clearly an act of state-sponsored terrorism (look up any definition of terrorism you wish to, but the US State Department&#039;s one is quite good), intended to scare the crap out of anyone opposing Israel in the most in-your-face and aggressive manner possible, I don&#039;t see how any other credible conclusion is possible.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi, thats was an interesting read.</p>
<p>“The entire operation was a total failure on every level.”  </p>
<p>I also have sympathy for the soldiers who did the shooting, what else where they expected to do, with a handful of them, massively outnumbered by the ships passengers and crew?  They had extremely limited options. But, I think you are making assumptions here about the objective of the operation.  </p>
<p>As you say they had literally months to plan this op and would surely have been aware of the consequences of different strategies, which brings me to my point:  killing 10 people is a damn good way to make sure the people who wish to render assistance to the inhabitants of Gaza will think twice before doing anything like this again.  I find it very hard indeed to believe that the raid, mounted exactly as you have described (inexperienced troops, at night, and a highly aggressive storming of the ships by armed commandos rather than a blockade), would have an outcome that was much different than the one that in fact occurred.  I don’t suggest that killing was the objective, only that a confrontation was utterly inevitable, therefore must have been the objective. </p>
<p>It is an established principle in law that one does not need to demonstrate intent, only that the outcome of a particular action was reasonably predictable.  This was quite clearly an act of state-sponsored terrorism (look up any definition of terrorism you wish to, but the US State Department’s one is quite good), intended to scare the crap out of anyone opposing Israel in the most in-your-face and aggressive manner possible, I don’t see how any other credible conclusion is possible.</p>
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		<title>Comment on 9/11 — Where I Was. by Blawg Review #245 &#171; Charon QC</title>
		<link>http://oedipuslex.co.uk/2009/09/911-where-i-was/comment-page-1/#comment-92</link>
		<dc:creator>Blawg Review #245 &#171; Charon QC</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 02 Jan 2010 18:47:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://oedipuslex.co.uk/?p=135#comment-92</guid>
		<description>[...] Just to make it absolutely clear&#8230; this is the type of tweet I like to see&#8230;it reflects social and pleasurable interaction.  Oedipus_Lex doesn&#8217;t just tweet &#8211; he also writes a very good blog. Here he remembers where he was on 9/11 [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[…] Just to make it absolutely clear… this is the type of tweet I like to see…it reflects social and pleasurable interaction.  Oedipus_Lex doesn’t just tweet – he also writes a very good blog. Here he remembers where he was on 9/11 […]</p>
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		<title>Comment on 9/11 — Where I Was. by Lisa</title>
		<link>http://oedipuslex.co.uk/2009/09/911-where-i-was/comment-page-1/#comment-91</link>
		<dc:creator>Lisa</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 14 Dec 2009 07:27:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://oedipuslex.co.uk/?p=135#comment-91</guid>
		<description>i have prepared a speech for today and i&#039;m sure, that 9/11 wasn;t a terror act. and i didn&#039;t find any real evidences that it was a terror act</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>i have prepared a speech for today and i’m sure, that 9/11 wasn;t a terror act. and i didn’t find any real evidences that it was a terror act</p>
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		<title>Comment on Restaurant Review — A Trip to an East London ‘Caff’ by Tabatha</title>
		<link>http://oedipuslex.co.uk/2009/03/restaurant-review-a-trip-to-an-east-london-caff/comment-page-1/#comment-87</link>
		<dc:creator>Tabatha</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 30 Oct 2009 17:23:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://oedipuslex.wordpress.com/?p=63#comment-87</guid>
		<description>Pink sweater and barbour.  I&#039;m not sure I will ever be able to stop laughing.  ADORABLE!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Pink sweater and barbour.  I’m not sure I will ever be able to stop laughing.  ADORABLE!</p>
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		<title>Comment on Right to Protest — Really? by oedipus_lex</title>
		<link>http://oedipuslex.co.uk/2009/09/right-to-protest-really/comment-page-1/#comment-81</link>
		<dc:creator>oedipus_lex</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 28 Sep 2009 09:23:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://oedipuslex.co.uk/?p=144#comment-81</guid>
		<description>Stu: Actually I have a lot of sympathy for the policemen who were at the sharp end of that bungled op. I question whether they needed to pump quite so many rounds into him but that was there call and I imagine after they had shot him once in the head everything after that was academic. However, having been a part of seemingly more complicated surveillance ops I still cannot believe that they allowed it to get so far. We could probably argue all day about this though.

I agree with the politicisation of the police and this is of concern not just ethically but constitutionally too. However, just because the States, Canada and France are worse does not mean that an arbitrary invocation of an all encompassing law is right.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Stu: Actually I have a lot of sympathy for the policemen who were at the sharp end of that bungled op. I question whether they needed to pump quite so many rounds into him but that was there call and I imagine after they had shot him once in the head everything after that was academic. However, having been a part of seemingly more complicated surveillance ops I still cannot believe that they allowed it to get so far. We could probably argue all day about this though.</p>
<p>I agree with the politicisation of the police and this is of concern not just ethically but constitutionally too. However, just because the States, Canada and France are worse does not mean that an arbitrary invocation of an all encompassing law is right.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Right to Protest — Really? by Stu Peters</title>
		<link>http://oedipuslex.co.uk/2009/09/right-to-protest-really/comment-page-1/#comment-80</link>
		<dc:creator>Stu Peters</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 25 Sep 2009 20:15:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://oedipuslex.co.uk/?p=144#comment-80</guid>
		<description>I have little sympathy with Menezes; he refused to stop, presumably because he was an illegal immigrant; a fact unknown to the officers &quot;on the ground&quot;. His flight served only to confirm the information that they had received. 

The errors in the information have been well documented and like the demise of poor Mr. Tomlinson, none of this reflects well upon the Met who seem to be following their political masters in both stupidity and lack of accountability. 

I left the Police Service in the early 80&#039;s when it started to become politicised and have seen the Police at work in the USA and in Canada where I now live. By transatlantic standards I do feel that you have can have little complaint over the behaviour of the Met officers outside the Hilton.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have little sympathy with Menezes; he refused to stop, presumably because he was an illegal immigrant; a fact unknown to the officers “on the ground”. His flight served only to confirm the information that they had received. </p>
<p>The errors in the information have been well documented and like the demise of poor Mr. Tomlinson, none of this reflects well upon the Met who seem to be following their political masters in both stupidity and lack of accountability. </p>
<p>I left the Police Service in the early 80’s when it started to become politicised and have seen the Police at work in the USA and in Canada where I now live. By transatlantic standards I do feel that you have can have little complaint over the behaviour of the Met officers outside the Hilton.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Right to Protest — Really? by oedipus_lex</title>
		<link>http://oedipuslex.co.uk/2009/09/right-to-protest-really/comment-page-1/#comment-79</link>
		<dc:creator>oedipus_lex</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 25 Sep 2009 08:51:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://oedipuslex.co.uk/?p=144#comment-79</guid>
		<description>And as a retired soldier with more than my fair share of service in Northern Ireland I would say that maybe the Met need some lessons from the RUC/PSNI. I have been in riots where we were petrol bombed, pipe bombed and opened up on with automatic weapons yet we managed not to kill anyone. While the murder of Yvonne Fletcher was truly awful, at least she had an idea of the occupational risks of her job; Ian Tomlinson and Jean Charles de Menezes didn&#039;t.

I don&#039;t think the French gendarmerie have ever been accused of being civilised. The current closure of the &#039;Jungle&#039; is proof of this. They are virtually a paramilitary organisation who live in barracks and have a flaming grenade as their cap-badge!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>And as a retired soldier with more than my fair share of service in Northern Ireland I would say that maybe the Met need some lessons from the RUC/PSNI. I have been in riots where we were petrol bombed, pipe bombed and opened up on with automatic weapons yet we managed not to kill anyone. While the murder of Yvonne Fletcher was truly awful, at least she had an idea of the occupational risks of her job; Ian Tomlinson and Jean Charles de Menezes didn’t.</p>
<p>I don’t think the French gendarmerie have ever been accused of being civilised. The current closure of the ‘Jungle’ is proof of this. They are virtually a paramilitary organisation who live in barracks and have a flaming grenade as their cap-badge!</p>
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		<title>Comment on Right to Protest — Really? by Stu Peters</title>
		<link>http://oedipuslex.co.uk/2009/09/right-to-protest-really/comment-page-1/#comment-74</link>
		<dc:creator>Stu Peters</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 24 Sep 2009 23:51:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://oedipuslex.co.uk/?p=144#comment-74</guid>
		<description>As a retired Met and Provincial Force Copper all I can say is, that after the disgrace of the late WPC Yvonne Fletcher and the realese of the Pan Am bomber, you are lucky to have a Police Force at all. Oh and try it on in France or any other &quot;civilised&quot; country.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As a retired Met and Provincial Force Copper all I can say is, that after the disgrace of the late WPC Yvonne Fletcher and the realese of the Pan Am bomber, you are lucky to have a Police Force at all. Oh and try it on in France or any other “civilised” country.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Right to Protest — Really? by oedipus_lex</title>
		<link>http://oedipuslex.co.uk/2009/09/right-to-protest-really/comment-page-1/#comment-73</link>
		<dc:creator>oedipus_lex</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 24 Sep 2009 08:21:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://oedipuslex.co.uk/?p=144#comment-73</guid>
		<description>Simply Wondered: You&#039;re right, we&#039;ve heard little from Disco Dave and his British Bill of Rights. This, quite frankly, scares the bejesus out of me. If he&#039;s right does this mean that rights are not universal? they are not human but nation specific. If this is the case then we end up with at best an underclass of people who are &#039;sans papiers&#039; and at worst Agamben&#039;s Homo Sacer - someone who may be killed by anyone but not sacrificed.

I agree with your sentiments in that the law t&#039;was ever thus. But in a historical context mostof us wouldn&#039;t have the right to vote let alone protest. The point is that as a society we are supposed to be evolving, we should have put the dark days of repression behind us. This government did some great things in their first few years, things they were rightly proud of. Sadly they are reverting, post 9/11, to the theory that the law is nought but orders backd by threats (Austin I think).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Simply Wondered: You’re right, we’ve heard little from Disco Dave and his British Bill of Rights. This, quite frankly, scares the bejesus out of me. If he’s right does this mean that rights are not universal? they are not human but nation specific. If this is the case then we end up with at best an underclass of people who are ‘sans papiers’ and at worst Agamben’s Homo Sacer — someone who may be killed by anyone but not sacrificed.</p>
<p>I agree with your sentiments in that the law t’was ever thus. But in a historical context mostof us wouldn’t have the right to vote let alone protest. The point is that as a society we are supposed to be evolving, we should have put the dark days of repression behind us. This government did some great things in their first few years, things they were rightly proud of. Sadly they are reverting, post 9/11, to the theory that the law is nought but orders backd by threats (Austin I think).</p>
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